ศาลาชุมนุม

[keith]

hello again,

English term 'news' could have the (nasalized) n as in ngo ngu (or gnocchi? news = /njus/), in contrast to the "normal" n as in nurse.

this ง is causing quite a stir but i think r2d2 may have something here or maybe its just because i originally come from Birmingham in the UK (a nasal dialect) but the word 'news' is pronounced with a nasal 'n' , I've tried using that theory on the Thai 'ง' and it works some of the time, just practise now i think and much face pulling to change the sound a little. That amuses the Thais too, so everyones happy

I'm off to practice, wish me luck

It seems that we are into regional variations here I am from South East England and we pronounce the word "new" as /nju:/ (as in gnocchi), in USA I believe it is more like /nu:/

[r2d2]

If this is not true, the time I spent learning Italian is wasted.

Per favore: Continua!

You cannot waste time while learning this wonderful language!

Pizza : /ˈpiːtsə/ (Italian: [ˈpiʦ:a])

I reccommend to read something about 'gemination', in particular Italian gemination, such as

Quando è adottata la convenzione della ripetizione del simbolo, in trascrizione fonetica è corretto e possibile, benché decisamente inusuale, specificare che il primo dei due elementi della geminata non ha rilascio udibile, ricorrendo all'apposito diacritico IPA:

[ˈkan̚ne], [ˈpiʦ̚ʦa] o [ˈpit̚ʦa]

Geminazione consonantica

[Pirin]

Found out now, thx to you, that she is right and I'm wrong:

singen: [ˈzɪŋən]
gnocchi [ˈɲɔkːi]
งู [ŋuː]

But this observation does not solve my problem with "initial ng 'as in singen'".

Because I've got an opportunity to use Thai, Lao, Khmer, and English regularly, I'd just like to say that the initial or final sound of /ɲ/ appears in both Lao and Khmer, but does not exist in Thai at all.

Therefore, the initial sound of the word "news" in English and that of the word "งู" in Thai are not comparable.

Anyway, I've found that the sound of the second syllable of the word "longing /ˈlɑŋ.ɪŋ/" in English is quite close to the initial sound of "งู /ŋuː/" in Thai.

What do you think?

[pensive]

True.

"News" is a red herring as it is pronounced "nyus" or นิวส์. That is, the consonant is ny, not ng. But longing, singing, etc are all OK.

[r2d2]

What do you think?

I agree with you. I'm acquiantant also a little with Lao, isn't there the yo ying the yo yung (Y nasalized?)?

My (German) problem is that I have no difficulties with the /n/ as in gnocchi, or the final /n/ as in singen (ger.), or Bangkok, only the initial as in ngu or ngueak causes problems for me, so yes ... and news (in BE) more like gnocchi.

[r2d2]

South East England and we pronounce the word "new" as /nju:/ (as in gnocchi), in USA I believe it is more like /nu:/

That is sad!

Nieuw Amsterdam ---> New York

May be that South East England is nearer to Amsterdam than to New York

[r2d2]

นิวส์. That is, the consonant is ny, not ng.

The sara i in news (นิวส์) I would call a vowel (Thai sara), but not a consonant (Thai phayanchana). Actually this is part of my question adressed to David (but:

South East England ..., in USA I believe it is more like /nu:/

).

David is from Texas, USA.

นิวส์ [นิว] nio (RTGS)

Tl.com:

IPA Transcription Result:
นิวส์ niw

IPA Transcription Result:
ลาว laːw

[Pirin]

What do you think?

I agree with you. I'm acquiantant also a little with Lao, isn't there the yo ying the yo yung (Y nasalized?)?

หาคำตอบได้ที่

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lao.htm
และที่
http://www.seasite.niu.edu/lao/
ค่ะ

[r2d2]

หาคำตอบได้ที่

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lao.htm
และที่
http://www.seasite.niu.edu/lao/
ค่ะ

Khrap! This helps (to improve my pronunciation of ngo ngu)

My sentence "isn't there the yo ying the yo yung (Y nasalized?)" is a little bit strange because ... is yo yak then, in Lao, yo ya?!
My former sentence is based only on a feeling: The RTGS rule for ญ =y=n (consonant in initial and in final position) is similar to the Lao transcription rule for "ny"o "ny"ung (but a little bit vice versa "n"->y)

Thx a lot!