ศาลาชุมนุม

[CalmDownMonkey]

Hi,

I've hit a stage in my learning where I know all the consonants, vowels and tone rules, and can thus read most Thai words and sentences out loud quite accurately. My vocabulary is still very slim, but I want to let that grow naturally as I learn.

However, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding how sentences are put together as they look almost nothing like their counterparts in English, and I can't find a way to get good at this.

I have a *huge* pile of children's books I bought from various book shops in Thailand, and they are full of very simple stories that I planned on using to get to grips with sentence structure. I will choose a book, start splitting the sentences apart into words, and translate the words I don't know using this site. The resulting translated sentence can either be a meaningful sentence, or completely gibberish.

Perhaps trying to read these books is an activity that is still too advanced for me? Maybe I need to learn a thing or two about grammar or sentence structure first? Or maybe I should continue with these books, asking for help where required, until eventually it gels in my mind? What is the best way to learn this?

I can give you an example from one of my books. I'll type up the first page:
เพนกวินกับเกลอ
ชอบว่ายน้ำเสมอ
แต่หาปลาไม่เจอ
สงสัยจะหาเก้อ

I think it says this:
A penguin is with a friend
They like swimming often
But, they search for fish and don't find any

The last sentence I can't understand. I had to look up สงสัย and เก้อ in the dictionary, but apparently they mean "doubt" and "embarrassed". That means it would say "They doubt they will search embarrassed" -- hmm, haha! I don't know what to do when I hit a sentence like this and can't understand it.

Thanks for any advice you can give,
Will

[pensive]

This is really difficult vocabulary.

"They suspect they will search in vain", or "they wonder if they are searching in vain."
"They always like swimming"?

I think they are too hard for a beginner, for me. What you really need is beginner books for non-Thais.

[David and Bui]

I would not be concerned about finding grammatical logic for understanding "สงสัยจะหาเก้อ". The last word is there primarily for rhyming with the final words in the other lines. This is children's poetry, after all.

[simonbournemouth]

A poem about สระเออ.

[CalmDownMonkey]

That's right, it's a book full of stories/poems using สระเออ , I have one for a few other vowels too. Perhaps like you say it is a bad choice for a beginner.

I guess what would be most helpful is a huge list of sentences, coupled with explanations of why the words are in that particular order and how they affect each other. I've often asked my Thai friend to explain a sentence and been told "Ooh, when those two words come together, it means [something completely different]", so often a dictionary isn't much help in working out what the sentence means.

I'm going to start by seeing what the reading lessons are like on this website, but if anyone could suggest any further resources or a good method for getting the hang of this, it would be hugely appreciated!

[David and Bui]

Glenn Slayden, the creator and godfather of this website, has created a thoughtful method of analyzing sentences. For all sentences in the database, as well as for all those in the reading exercises, not only is an English translation provided, but each word or phrase in the sentence is explained individually. Since words are aggregated into phrases in Thai with specific meanings, each phrase in the database is analyzed into its constituent components. Thus, the site uses a "drill-down" approach toward sentence analysis.

Alas, we do not yet have a grammatical analysis of each sentence, but I can assure you that Glenn is working on that issue.

[claude06thailand]

I can give you an example from one of my books. I'll type up the first page:

* * * *
เพนกวินกับเกลอ A Penguin and his buddy
ชอบว่ายน้ำเสมอ like to swim all the time
แต่หาปลาไม่เจอ but they cannot find any fish
สงสัยจะหาเก้อ they wonder if they can ever find some

For the last verse, depending on the context, it could be "I wonder if they can ever find some"

I find it wonderful that you could understand nearly all this... Poetry is always difficult, with uncommon syntax and words chosen for rhyming
After many years of everyday reading, I had to look up เกลอ and เก้อ in the dictionary.
So, I think you do not need too much study now but the choice of your first reading is essential.
Just follow David's and Pensive's advices.
Many people on this site are ready to help you, with a few very helpfulThai natives.
As for me, I began with Thai children's books since I am French and there were few bilingual books in French.
Wish you much fun in learning !

[Tgeezer]

I'm going to start by seeing what the reading lessons are like on this website, but if anyone could suggest any further resources or a good method for getting the hang of this, it would be hugely appreciated!

This is exactly how I am doing it. I also found that the kids books were difficult so I decided not to read any more English explanations of grammar and to learn as a child, I use my fingers to remember the tones.
You probably have all the books already. หลักภาษา primary school books, starting at year 4. Of course you must forget that the reason for learning is to get around town yesterday; it is a slow process.
The English nomenclature is different from the Thai grammar also, although Thai is always changeing to fit English the basic grammar is still not exactly the same.
This site won't help this method at all except, the dictionary can help but only when you have exhausted research resources in Thai. The RID is difficult but when you know what words do, every time you look up a word you are doing a mini translation. The downside is that turning it into English is difficult.
Do have a go, I would love to have someone to talk to.

[pensive]

http://learningthai.com has a lot of reading resources also. It also has bilingual comics. And many conversations.

I bought Enid Blyton's Secret Seven when I was in Thailand and that doesn't seem too difficult to read. The standard of Thai books seems to be all over the shop - I read a book once about classifying faces which was easy to read, and there was one on dream analysis which was far too difficult.

[Pirin]

Hi,

I can give you an example from one of my books. I'll type up the first page:
เพนกวินกับเกลอ
ชอบว่ายน้ำเสมอ
แต่หาปลาไม่เจอ
สงสัยจะหาเก้อ

I think it says this:
A penguin is with a friend
They like swimming often
But, they search for fish and don't find any

The last sentence I can't understand. I had to look up สงสัย and เก้อ in the dictionary, but apparently they mean "doubt" and "embarrassed". That means it would say "They doubt they will search embarrassed" -- hmm, haha! I don't know what to do when I hit a sentence like this and can't understand it.

Thanks for any advice you can give,
Will

In the above context,
"สงสัย" is quivalent to "probably" whereas เก้อ means "in vain".

Here is my attempt for,
"เพนกวินกับเกลอ
ชอบว่ายน้ำเสมอ
แต่หาปลาไม่เจอ
สงสัยจะหาเก้อ
"

=>
A penguin with a bosom friend
Always swim for such a gain
To find fishes but none remains.
The search is thus doubtfully in vain.

This translation piece might appear funny in English, but it keeps the meaning of the original.