ศาลาชุมนุม

[pensive]

Have you tried reading books in Thai?

[Tgeezer]

Hi people

I'd like to ask about the structure of this sentence, I've got an idea of how it should be formed, but I'm not sure and I don't want to reinforce any (more?) bad habits in my thinking, so I would value your assistance.

I would like to construct the following sentence;

"I was waiting for you to call me last night, but when you didn't, I went on my own (or by myself) "

And here's my shot at it;

เมื่อคืนผม(กำลัง?)รอคุณโทรมา แต่เมื่อคุณไม่ได้ทำ (or โทรมา again?) ผมไปคนเดียว (do I need to put this part in the past tense as well?)

Am I close?


It also sounds a little abrupt at the end, so I imagine a suitable particle would be added, depending on who you were talking to

Thanks in advance,

Biff

Many Thais understand more English grammar than Thai so it is natural that the two languages merge here , but it is still Thai.

You already have the past tense in เมื่อคืน and the verb โทรศัพท์มา but you introduced a new verb ทำ in the second clause and you repeated เมื่อคืน which there was no need to do, and you wouldn't do it in English;
Last evening I waited for your call but you didn't call.
The next sentence is the result joined with the conjunction ก็ meaning จึง but it is common to repeat the subject before the conjunction. Then you use เลย as explained here; ว. ใช้ประกอบหน้ากริยาแสดง
ว่ากระทำกริยาอีกอย่างหนึ่งต่อไป เช่น จะไปซื้อของแล้วเลยกินข้าวนอกบ้าน ผมเปียกแล้วเลยสระผมเสียด้วย

เลย is also a conjunction meaning จึง so you could leave out either ก็ or เลย and it would change the meaning,, it may not flow which is perhaps why both are used by native speakers.
Try not to convert it to English and it makes sense.
Apparently this dictionary here has made ก็เลย into something, I don't know why.

What would be nice is finding an expression like the English 'you didn't' แต่คุณไม่ได้ แต่ไม่ใช่ แต่ไม่รับ แต่ไมได้
and I suspect that there is a shorter way, but it conflicts with 'translation'.

[buckjoy]

"I find myself struggling to learn how sentences are structured in Thai, which tends to mean that, as someone has pointed out, I end up with a fairly straight 'conversion' of an English sentence but with Thai words.

This is far from ideal, and I would appreciate some pointers from forum members as to how my learning can progress."


Read as much as you can.

[Toffeeman]

I would also add listen as much as possible, particularly to Thai conversation. If you have Thai friends to converse with use them to learn how they put sentences together. For instance if I here a Thai say a sentence which seems incomplete to me though other Thais think nothing of it I will ask that person why they said it like that. Why did they leave out certain words which I would have thought were necessary. Then try to remember what they say not as a translation of the English sentence but as the way to communicate that thought if you need to in the future.

[Tgeezer]

I would also add listen as much as possible, particularly to Thai conversation. If you have Thai friends to converse with use them to learn how they put sentences together. For instance if I here a Thai say a sentence which seems incomplete to me though other Thais think nothing of it I will ask that person why they said it like that. Why did they leave out certain words which I would have thought were necessary. Then try to remember what they say not as a translation of the English sentence but as the way to communicate that thought if you need to in the future.

This is right; if you ask for a translation of an English sentence then you get an English sentence in Thai. Most people accept that 'How are you?' is 'well not?' but more complicated thoughts produce a mixture of both languages.

If you question had been expressed as a narrative; A friend had said that he/she would ring me to arrange a visit somewhere, but he/she didn't ring so I went on my own.
How do I tell him/her why I went alone? or How do I chide him/her without causing offense? or How do I explain why I went before he/she called? etc.
These questions would produce much more interesting answers; few of us non native speakers could answer questions like this so the native speakers could really teach us some Thai Thai, and there might be something worth discussing as a result.

[Toffeeman]

Most people accept that 'How are you?' is 'well not?'

I agree with your post Tgeezer but I think you are confusing your 'mais'
สบายดีไหม is literally 'well with question word'
สบายดีไม่ is 'well not' which isnt a Thai expression.

[Tgeezer]

Most people accept that 'How are you?' is 'well not?'

I agree with your post Tgeezer but I think you are confusing your 'mais'
สบายดีไหม is literally 'well with question word'
สบายดีไม่ is 'well not' which isnt a Thai expression.

Well that is a red herring,; the fact that Thai tells us the tone to use doesn't change anything. You misread my post; you should have applied the 4th tone to 'not' in 'Well not?'
When you say มัย in second tone it is a statement when you say it in 4th tone it is a question, it means 'not'.
Edit: I have just looked at ไหม in the RID and look at this: ไหม ๒ ว. เป็นคําถาม มาจาก หรือไม่ เช่น กินไหม. I wouldn't be surprised if ไหม is not Thaigrit because a rising tone to ask a question is English, I wouldn't expect a tonal language to have that.

[bifftastic]

How would I express the following situation in Thai?


I had arranged with a friend that he would call me to arrange our evening out, he didn't call, so I went by myself. The next day I spoke to him and said...


"Last night I was waiting for you to call me, when you didn't, I went by myself."

[Tgeezer]

How would I express the following situation in Thai?


I had arranged with a friend that he would call me to arrange our evening out, he didn't call, so I went by myself. The next day I spoke to him and said...


"Last night I was waiting for you to call me, when you didn't, I went by myself."

You are right I got sidetracked, you had already posted the Thai which you wanted judged. My post was in answer to another post which expressed dissatisfaction with Thai words substituted for English.
It rang a bell with me because I am often suspicious of Thai which follows English grammar. In fact although English grammar was introduced to Thai over a hundred years ago it is still difficult to pin Thai down, thank goodness.
"เมื่อคืนผมรอโทรศัพท์คุณ แต่คุณไม่โทรมา ผมก็เลยไป

Grammatically โทรศัพท์ cannot be classed, is it a noun or a verb?
In your attempt the first sentence has the verb โทรมา which Nan has avoided.
Nan's second part has โทรมา making her two sentences agree, so that โทรศัพท์คุณ no longer means your telephone(instrument) but becomes your phone conversation. (call)

This is perhaps the reason that the RID is not used for everyday situations, I believe it was an attempt to remove ambiguity, which runs counter to the culture.

[pensive]

Doesn't the RID say that โทรศัพท์ is both a noun and a verb? Or am I confused?

ระบบโทรคมนาคมซึ่งใช้อุปกรณ์ทางไฟฟ้าเป็นเครื่องมือสื่อสาร
ให้ติดต่อพูดถึงกันได้ในระยะไกลโดยใช้สายตัวนําโยงติดต่อถึงกัน
และอาศัยอํานาจแม่เหล็กไฟฟ้าเป็นหลักสําคัญ. (อ. telephone),
คำว่าโทรศัพท์ที่อยู่หน้าหมายเลขโทรศัพท์มักเขียนย่อว่า โทร.
ออกเสียงว่า [โท]. (ปาก) ก. พูดติดต่อกันทางโทรศัพท์.