ศาลาชุมนุม

[claude06thailand]

If the sentence were lacking that phrase and จะ substituted, I would render the following as:
ในระยะสามสิบปี คนไทยยังจะต้องเผชิญโลกาภิวัตน์ระลอกใหม่ ซึ่งจะทำให้ชีวิตของเขาเปลี่ยนแปลงไปอย่างมาก
"Over the next 30 years, Thais will have to endure new rounds of globalization which will change their lives significantly."

David, I would have written :
ในระยะสามสิบปีข้างหน้า.................
or
ในระยะเวลาสามสิบปีต่อไป

What do you think ? is it possible to omit translating "next" here ?

[David and Bui]

Claude,

I agree with you that the expanded temporal phrases would be clearer. When I first read the sentence in the magazine, I was puzzled as to whether the author was talking about the past or the future. The actual sentence from the magazine is:

"แค่รับกฎหมายและกระบวนการยุติธรรมฝรั่ง ยังทำให้เกิดความสับสนได้ถึงเพียงนี้ ร้ายไปกว่านั้น ในระยะ 30-40 ปีที่ผ่านมา คนไทยยังต้องเผชิญโลกาภิวัตน์ระลอกใหม่ ซึ่งทำให้ชีวิตของเขาเปลี่ยนแปลงไปอย่างมาก หากมองความเปลี่ยนแปลงในแง่ได้ ชีวิตของแต่ละคนก็หลุดออกมาจากหมู่บ้าน มีสายสัมพันธ์ทั้งทางตรงและทางอ้อมกับเมืองและโลกกว้างภายนอกอย่างหลีกเลี่ยงไม่ได้

The juxtaposition of "ในระยะ 30-40 ปีที่ผ่านมา" and "คนไทยยังต้องเผชิญโลกาภิวัตน์ระลอกใหม่" seemed somewhat discordant to me. But I attribute this to my lack of comprehension.

[claude06thailand]

David, your lack of comprehension tends to end in perfect translations...

[Pirin]

A sentence illustrating how the use of มา is used in a temporal sense:

ในระยะสามสิบปีที่ผ่านมา คนไทยยังต้องเผชิญโลกาภิวัตน์ระลอกใหม่ ซึ่งทำให้ชีวิตของเขาเปลี่ยนแปลงไปอย่างมาก
"Over the past 30 years, Thais have had to endure new waves of globalization which have changed their lives significantly."


What do you think?
---------

I just saw that Thai2English has a similar comment regarding translating มา and ไป:

"มา: to ; in ; into ; towards (The translation of มา in this context depends on the primary verb, but it frequently has no direct equivalent in English and so may be untranslatable.)"

"ไป: to ; off ; away ; into ; in (The translation of ไป in this context depends on the primary verb, but it frequently has no direct equivalent in English and so may be untranslatable.)"

"มา" and "ไป" actually indicates "the unending state of time and action stated in the sentence" or present perfect tense.
In "ในระยะสามสิบปี[b]ที่ผ่านมา[/b] คนไทยยังต้องเผชิญโลกาภิวัตน์ระลอกใหม่ ซึ่งทำให้ชีวิตของเขาเปลี่ยนแปลงไปอย่างมาก",
“มา ว. (adverb or modifier) ใช้ประกอบคํากริยาแสดงอาการที่ต่อเนื่องเรื่อยมาถึงปัจจุบัน.
Similarly, "ไป" = เป็นคําประกอบท้ายกริยาหมายความว่าเรื่อยไป, ไม่หยุด, เช่น ทําไป กินไป.

[Tgeezer]

Which ones?

How about the following for a rendering in English of Nan's last three sentences:

What do you think? Thanks.

Maybe you could put those extra words in brackets to indicate that they are optional.

The ones that you are trying to ascribe some meaning to in those examples of Nan's; open and closing of a door.
The words มา and ไป .

[David and Bui]

Which ones?

How about the following for a rendering in English of Nan's last three sentences:

What do you think? Thanks.

Maybe you could put those extra words in brackets to indicate that they are optional.
The ones that you are trying to ascribe some meaning to in those examples of Nan's; open and closing of a door.
The words มา and ไป .

Khun Tgeezer,

I would never say that any particular Thai word is an "extra" word or can be omitted or is superfluous. What I did mean to say is that some words used in Thai expression are not translatable directly into English in order to convey the same expression or idea. Alternatively, I believe that sometimes to reflect the same meaning in English as a Thai sentence, we need to add words and phrases that are not literally in the Thai original. In this circumstance I do use brackets for the additional English words.

[Toffeeman]

Today I tried to remember if มา or ไป was the word used with closing the door. Then I thought it must be related to where you are standing. This got me thinking about whether the word will change of you are in the room or going out of the room.

Here are a few sentences from earlier in the thread:
ผู้ที่อยู่ภายในห้องเปิดประตูมาแล้วเดินออกไป
The person in the room opened the door and walked out.

ผู้ที่อยู่ภายในห้องปิดประตูไปแล้วดับไฟเข้านอน
"The person in the room closed the door then turned off the light and went to sleep."

The 1st sentence is a person opening the door from the inside towards him and therefore มา is used.
The 2nd sentence is a person inside the room closing the door away from him and therefore ไป is used.

What about if you open the door from the outside to enter the room. I guess then you would use ไป.
And if you close the door from the outside the direction is toward you so มา would be used?

I know it all sounds like I want all the I's dotted and the T's crossed but it would help we come to grips with this use of direction words.

[Pirin]

Today I tried to remember if มา or ไป was the word used with closing the door. Then I thought it must be related to where you are standing. This got me thinking about whether the word will change of you are in the room or going out of the room.

"Then I thought it must be related to where you are standing."
Believe it or not, you are absolutely on the right track.

For this reason, in terms of using "มา" to indicate direction, please feel free to use it when the person about whom you are talking is moving towards you (the speaker or the writer). By contrast, "ไป" is another choice when describing the person moving to the opposite direction.