ศาลาชุมนุม

[r2d2]

As explanations go, you might as well explain how to read an IPA transcription.

For giving an appropriate reply to your suggestion set in bold I tried to hint simply on the Generate Phonemic Transcription for Thai Text feature of TL.com as it offers, among others, also IPA ... unfortunately, this, feature works not well with akson nam o ang:


The output of the feature is:

"TlEnhanced Transcription Result:
อยู่ aL yuuF"

The entry of TL.com dic, however, reads

อยู่ yuuL
pronunciation guide
Phonemic Thai หฺยู่
Royal Thai General System yu

Thus, no chance to show you Phonemic Thai หฺยู่
in IPA (potentially y?: ?)

This is comparable with สยาม [สะ-หฺยาม] ... fitting in the ORTHOGRAPHIC rule ... It has an eymological basis in cases such as เสบีย, ... .

I could find เสบย [สะเบย] (ปาก) ก. สบาย เช่น วันนี้ดูหน้าตาไม่เสบย. (ข. เสฺบิย) but not เสบีย in a Thai dic. You are referring with เสบีย to the Khmer term เสฺบิย?

เสบย [สะเบย]does not fit in this discussion (about a list, or alternatively a rule) as bo bai mai is a neutral consonant. I had chosen สยาม [สะ-หฺยาม] as it should be of Khmer etymology (yes), (but)and has this ho hip + phinthu ("hiding") "pseudo-cluster" สย.

[Richard Wordingham]

อยู่ yuuL
pronunciation guide
Phonemic Thai หฺยู่
Royal Thai General System yu

Thus, no chance to show you Phonemic Thai หฺยู่
in IPA (potentially y?: ?)

The IPA works quite well - changing the colon, we get jù:. I don't know what's gone wrong with the 'TlEnhanced Transcription Result'. It looks like a bug to me - I hope the site doesn't have to store irregular words' transcriptions in all formats.

This is comparable with สยาม [สะ-หฺยาม] ... fitting in the ORTHOGRAPHIC rule ... It has an eymological basis in cases such as เสบีย, ... .

I could find เสบย [สะเบย] (ปาก) ก. สบาย เช่น วันนี้ดูหน้าตาไม่เสบย. (ข. เสฺบิย) but not เสบีย in a Thai dic. You are referring with เสบีย to the Khmer term เสฺบิย?Sorry, I must have been falling sleep as I got angry. I was thinking that the word you were talking about was สบาย - whose syllabic structure is ambiguous.

I had chosen สยาม [สะ-หฺยาม] as it should be of Khmer etymology (yes), (but)and has this ho hip + phinthu ("hiding") "pseudo-cluster" สย.

I think one does better to think of it as a cluster which Thais actually can't pronounce.

However, there are some weird disagreements as to what clusters are pronounceable. The /br/ pseudo-clusters and clusters of non-European origin are etymologically weird - the cluster is unetymological. Perhaps the oddest case is บฤงคพ [บฺริง-คบ], from Sanskrit ปุงฺคว.