ศาลาชุมนุม

[Rick Bradford]

A Noss analysis of tone and stress is available here.

(Just looking at all those typed pages makes me so thankful for the computer...)

[tod-daniels]

As far as accent when a foreigner speaks Thai, believe me, you’re always gonna be pegged as a foreign speaker (no matter how many glowing accolades you get from the ever praising Thais about your Thai language ability). Thais can speak to another native Thai speaker where both are speaking Bangkok Thai and immediately tell where the other person learned to speak Thai (usually where they were born). I mean they can tell not only the province but sometimes down to a specific area in that province. I wouldn’t waste a second fretting over speaking Bangkok Thai with a Phuket accent. You’re totally foreign accented Thai will be enough of a give-away. Don’t sweat the small stuff . . ..

I also wouldn’t go as far as another poster did and say the Thais are too lazy to correctly pronounce their own words, nor that any of their pronunciation it is corrupting the language . That mind-set is reminiscent of the aging Thai language dinosaurs who seem to be overly focused on “freezing” this language. Believe me, it ain't all that big a selling point of ANY language that you can read inscriptions cut into stone from many hundreds of years ago . Last time I checked they’re their words, so I guess that gives ‘em the right to pronounce ‘em pretty much anyway they want to .

I am on the completely other side of the fence in regards to pronunciation and suggest that foreign speakers of Thai "follow the Thais" as much as possible in pronunciation. No matter how a word is “supposed to be pronounced by the book” if you hear it pronounced different a lot of times, try to copy that way of saying it. Now before the ‘holier than thou” brigade jumps in ; I’m not advocating switching out your ร’s for ล’s, but you know what I mean.

It’s also a good thing to do as far as using what you hear Thais say for sentence constructs versus some of those mind-less one's pulled outta books which teach Thai to foreigners. Those books make foreigners speak possibly the most un-Thai Thai I’ve ever heard.

Almost ALL the Thai language schools I've sat classes at have teachers who speak Thai with a WAY over the top exaggerated pronunciations. I realize this is to clue in clue-less foreign students on the proper toning, syllable breaks, etc. Possibly also to illustrate that tones are used in Thai to delineate words rather than as in English to carry emotive value to what's being said. Sadly, it makes for some terribly spoken totally foreign sounding Thai .

My take on languages (ANY of them for that matter) is that I see them purely a tool to facilitate communication, nothing more, nothing less. In my world there is no such thing as a "beautiful language" . They're just tools to use, like a shovel helps you dig, and a hammer helps you pound nails. You wanna know how to best use a shovel, go find someone who digs for a living, you wanna know how best to use a hammer go find a carpenter. You wanna know how to use Thai, listen to people using it.

I honestly believe if you copy what you hear Thais say as far as pronunciation you'll be understood way more than speaking “by the book Thai”. It's far better to "speak like a Thai" than like a foreigner tryin' to speak what they think is "correct Thai".

After all, we're non-native speakers of this language, who are we to judge how native speakers use their own language. That is almost the height of pretentiousness , doncha think?

Sorry if this was off topic, but. . .

[Tgeezer]

It is a question of standards old boy, some of us have them and somuv uz don'.

[Toffeeman]

Tod makes some good points. But I guess that is nature of the beast who reads and contributes to an online Thai language forum. Those who learn their Thai from the street and are happy to speak it as they do, perhaps not bothering too much with correct grammar or correct tones, aren't the sort to be interested in this forum. Then there are others, who probably by nature lean towards perfectionism, who want all the i's dotted and the t's crossed. So they spend time reading and writing about the Thai language. Hence the threads that for some might seem irrelevant to 'real Thai'

Of course there is room for all and both groups could learn a thing or 2 from each other. I am in the 2nd group but like the things Tod wrote. If I compare everything he said with English I have to agree with him. I know usually after hello what part of the world a person is from or what part of the UK. But after that I am just listening to his message not his grammatical errors even if he is not a native speaker. I am sure it is the same with the Thais.

[David and Bui]

I am on the completely other side of the fence in regards to pronunciation and suggest that foreign speakers of Thai "follow the Thais" as much as possible in pronunciation. No matter how a word is “supposed to be pronounced by the book” if you hear it pronounced different a lot of times, try to copy that way of saying it.

I tend to agree with Tod on this one. However, one must ask, “Who are the Thais whose expression we should follow”, “What language should be emulated”, and “When should we emulate it?” Let’s consider the different sub-languages in Thailand: there are regional dialects; classical school Thai; language of the marketplace; the patois of girls in the bar; language of the workplace, from office jobs to that of construction sites; and, of course, the new and ever-changing language of Twitter, email, SMS, BBL, and Facebook. Many Thais speak several of these sub-languages.

My recommendation is speak the language appropriate to the situation you are in; when in doubt, speak classical Central Thai of the classroom which is acceptable everywhere.

[tod-daniels]

I agree with "David and Bui" 100% as far as speaking the appropriate "variety" or "register" of Thai given the situation you're conversing in.

Overly casual street Thai is unlikely to be looked at in a favorable light by the officials out at Immigrations or when dealing with ANY Thai (especially one who has even a modicum of authority) .

In the same way, at the market, or on the street, a foreigner spoutin' highfalutin Thai is gonna be looked at with a critical eye .

I also agree, when in doubt, speak middle register polite Bangkok Thai (not that fake sugary pseudo-respectful stuff ). You'll be understood almost 100% of the time and will rarely create a social "fox-paw" by speaking to any Thai in that manner.

I have tried for the last three years to learn the inz-&-outz of this language. I've invested WAY more time than I imagined I would goin’ into this and still fall short of the mark in many areas .

I'm getting better, mostly due to the eavesdropping on Thais speaking in a variety of different settings for hours and hours; then copying the bits I feel are useful for my existence here which helped push me past the plateau I felt I’d hit with my speaking.

Good post David . ..