ศาลาชุมนุม

[SlickMan]

Dear all,

Please advise why the said consonant clusters in the words ผลิก, ปรัก and ปลัด are not pronounced as usual but pronounced as ผะ-หลิก, ปะ-หรัก and ปะ-หลัด respectively?

[r2d2]

Dear all,

Please advise why the said consonant clusters in the words ผลิก, ปรัก and ปลัด are not pronounced as usual but pronounced as ผะ-หลิก, ปะ-หรัก and ปะ-หลัด respectively?

Since prescribed by the regulatory body of the language Thai, the RID:

ผลิก, ผลิกะ [ผะลิกะ] น. ผลึก. (ป.).
ปรัก ๑ [ปฺรัก] ว. เงิน. (ข.).
ปรัก ๒ [ปะหฺรัก] ก. หัก.
ปลัด [ปะหฺลัด] น. ผู้มีตำแหน่งหน้าที่รองจากผู้ที่มีตําแหน่งหน้าที่เหนือตน โดยตรง เช่น ปลัดกระทรวง ปลัดจังหวัด; ตําแหน่งพระฐานานุกรม เหนือสมุห์.

[SlickMan]

Dear all,

Please advise why the said consonant clusters in the words ผลิก, ปรัก and ปลัด are not pronounced as usual but pronounced as ผะ-หลิก, ปะ-หรัก and ปะ-หลัด respectively?

Since prescribed by the regulatory body of the language Thai, the RID:

ผลิก, ผลิกะ [ผะลิกะ] น. ผลึก. (ป.).
ปรัก ๑ [ปฺรัก] ว. เงิน. (ข.).
ปรัก ๒ [ปะหฺรัก] ก. หัก.
ปลัด [ปะหฺลัด] น. ผู้มีตำแหน่งหน้าที่รองจากผู้ที่มีตําแหน่งหน้าที่เหนือตน โดยตรง เช่น ปลัดกระทรวง ปลัดจังหวัด; ตําแหน่งพระฐานานุกรม เหนือสมุห์.

I am sorry, but ... what do all that mean? I am just a beginner in Thai langauge.

[pensive]

He has simply taken excerpts out of the Royal Institute Dictionary - the last resort in the meaning of Thai words.

But if you look at the word ปรัก you will see there are two meanings as well as two pronounciations. It is likely that the word has two origins.

I was interested a month ago in the words พลัง and พลาง. The first has two syllables and the second only one. I don't know whether this is because of etymology or a desire to be clear about which is meant (as the tone is the same and there is not much difference in the sound of a short or a long 'a').

[Tgeezer]

He has simply taken excerpts out of the Royal Institute Dictionary - the last resort in the meaning of Thai words.

But if you look at the word ปรัก you will see there are two meanings as well as two pronounciations. It is likely that the word has two origins.

I was interested a month ago in the words พลัง and พลาง. The first has two syllables and the second only one. I don't know whether this is because of etymology or a desire to be clear about which is meant (as the tone is the same and there is not much difference in the sound of a short or a long 'a').

You asked for this
The RID is the first resource for อักขรวิธี( reading and writing letters correctly) because it carries the authority of government. You can ignore it but you wont win if you do.

The length of a short vowel is ๑ มาตรา one unit, a long vowel is ๒ มาตรา two units, and the vowel in between two consonants is กึ่งมาตรา or half a unit.
For me one unit is the vowel in can, ran, and I make sure when reading aloud I say it twice as long for long vowels.

[r2d2]

I am sorry, but ... what do all that mean? I am just a beginner in Thai langauge.

I'm sorry for the moment since I have no access to the English Wikipedia due to the currently ongoing conflict on freedom of information.

Recommended reading, thus, would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Inst ... f_Thailand (if you would have access - or you have access?).

For the meanwhile, as long as conflict is ongoing, have a look on

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A3% ... 2%E0%B8%99 (ราชบัณฑิตยสถาน).

This Royal Institute (RI) regulates Thai language, among others, by the dictionary of the RI, the RID, internet version available at http://rirs3.royin.go.th/

A MUST-read in the context of RID is the blogger of Rikker, Thai 101, http://rikker.blogspot.com/. Please go there to the Tag cloud and click on RID - excellent work done by Rikker!

[SlickMan]

Thanks for all of your responses; but can I treat these three words as exceptions to the rules, and the pronunciation of these three words are to be memorised by rote?

[r2d2]

deleted since revised in the next post

[r2d2]

Thanks for all of your responses; but can I treat these three words as exceptions to the rules, and the pronunciation of these three words are to be memorised by rote?

Would say: This depends on the rules you are using.

How to explain this appropriately?

I feel that students are losing too much time by trying to memorize rules on clusters. These rules appear to derive both from traditional teaching as well as statistics (how often a cluster phenomenon occurs).

To explain the latter with a single example:

From a bottle with nam pla I read บริษัท out as Brisat. My wife was laughing. Then I thought: Ah, the br is a not allowed cluster, thus barisat. My wife laughed again until I became aware that I just know the term, borisat.

บริดจ์ [บฺริด] brit bridge (the card game)

One may argue loanword, but those phenomenons occur also in other cases. Rules about clusters fit in about 51 to 90% of occuring clusters (according my observation).

You asked for the why of the pronunciation. The answer is actually (the phonetic entry of) the RID. A recommendation from my side is to have a look into the RID in cases where you are surprised by the pronunciation of a specific term. This helped at least me to understand better the relationship of spelled and spoken Thai.

[Tgeezer]

You asked for the why of the pronunciation. The answer is actually (the phonetic entry of) the RID. A recommendation from my side is to have a look into the RID in cases where you are surprised by the pronunciation of a specific term. This helped at least me to understand better the relationship of spelled and spoken Thai.

I feel that this forum is starting to come together nicely, the importance and use of the RID is finally being appreciated.
All the research done using one official source of information is the way to go; and its only 600Baht.