ศาลาชุมนุม

[Pepa]

It seems that the pronunciation guide at TL for words starting with บริ is wrong (except for words starting with บริการ]. While บริการ is correctly broken down as บอ-ริ-กาน, all other บริ- words are broken down as บ็อ-ริ- which from my experience listening to Thai speakers is not correct. Any comments?

[David and Bui]

Note the pronunciation guide in the Thai dictionary Lexitron:

บริเวณ /bɔ̄ːˑríˑwēːn/ [N] boundary
บริวาร /bɔ̄ːˑríˑwāːn/ [N] slave
บริจาค /bɔ̄ːˑríˑtcàːk/ [V] sacrifice (something)
บริษัท /bɔ̄ːˑríˑsàt/ [N] firm

All these words show the first syllable with the implied ɔ̄ː sound as being a stop, effectively rendering the vowel short. My ears do not pick up the long vowel when hearing Thais pronounce these words, but I could be hearing these words incorrectly.

Certainly, however, the RID shows the vowel to be long: [บอริเวน] [บอริวาน] [บอริจาก] [บอริสัด].

[Pepa]

Thank you for your response.
Am I correct in assuming your ears have never picked up a stop?? Probably because the second syllable tends to be stressed, the first is not stressed as much, and so the factual pronounciation will be shorter. I think indicating a stop is more confusing for learners, and it contradicts the RID.

[Pirin]

Note the pronunciation guide in the Thai dictionary Lexitron:

บริเวณ /bɔ̄ːˑríˑwēːn/ [N] boundary
บริวาร /bɔ̄ːˑríˑwāːn/ [N] slave
บริจาค /bɔ̄ːˑríˑtcàːk/ [V] sacrifice (something)
บริษัท /bɔ̄ːˑríˑsàt/ [N] firm

All these words show the first syllable with the implied ɔ̄ː sound as being a stop, effectively rendering the vowel short. My ears do not pick up the long vowel when hearing Thais pronounce these words, but I could be hearing these words incorrectly.

Certainly, however, the RID shows the vowel to be long: [บอริเวน] [บอริวาน] [บอริจาก] [บอริสัด].

บริเวณ bawL riH waehnM
http://www.thai-language.com/id/5094

บริวาร bawL riH waanM
http://www.thai-language.com/id/27648

บริจาค bawL riH jaakL
http://www.thai-language.com/id/7187

บริษัท bawL riH satL
http://www.thai-language.com/id/5563

[Pepa]

If things don't get corrected, I will refrain from going through the trouble of pointing things out. I find TL the best resource in Thai language learning, and I would love to see it get even better.

[Pirin]

It seems that the pronunciation guide at TL for words starting with บริ is wrong (except for words starting with บริการ]. While บริการ is correctly broken down as บอ-ริ-กาน, all other บริ- words are broken down as บ็อ-ริ- which from my experience listening to Thai speakers is not correct. Any comments?

If things don't get corrected, I will refrain from going through the trouble of pointing things out. I find TL the best resource in Thai language learning, and I would love to see it get even better.

ว่าแต่เขาอิเหนาเป็นเอง (สำ) ก. ตำหนิผู้อื่นเรื่องใดแล้วตนก็กลับทำในเรื่องนั้นเสียเอง.
http://www.thai-language.com/id/210063

....
บริกรม [บอริกฺรม] (แบบ) ก. เดินไป, ผ่านไป, พ้นไป, จากไป. (ส. ปริกฺรม).
บริจาค [บอริจาก] ก. สละให้, เสียสละ. น. การสละ, การให้, การแจก, ความเสียสละ, เป็นธรรมข้อ ๑ ในทศพิธราชธรรม. (ดู ทศพิธราชธรรมหรือ ราชธรรม). (ป. ปริจฺจาค).
http://rirs3.royin.go.th/word24/word-24-a1.asp

[David and Bui]

Pepa,

We very much appreciate your comments, corrections, and input. This site is updated by batch input approximately once a month; we try to take into account all requests for update and corrections but you may not find such changes on the site until such batch input occurs. We appreciate your patience.

Our primary source for pronunciation is the Royal Institute Dictionary, although we do realize that actual usage on the street might differ. The Royal Institute Dictionary often states two alternative pronunciations and with respect to more modern words this official dictionary sometimes does not contain the most modern version.

We at T-L.com will try to accommodate your input as best we can. Thanks again.

[noomi]

Lana means some language other than Thai then it is irrelevent to the pronunciation of ภาษากลาง School textbooks teach Thai so they should conform to the standard. Of course there are people who don't use the same nomenclature but that shouldn't change anything. This forum is about Thai.

[addseo1115]

It's a great lesson. Thank you for you response.

[Richard Wordingham]

I think indicating a stop is more confusing for learners, and it contradicts the RID.

The facts appear to be that the vowel is short, but is never followed by a glottal stop. I've heard that there is a similar contradiction with sentence final particles.

The RID could only confirm such distinctions if it added notes to its pronunciations, a problem they thought they'd solved by the use of phinthu (the dot below).

At a technical level, there may just be a major difference between 'underlying' and 'surface' forms. When the transformations from the underlying to the surface forms reassign segments from one phoneme to another, there is a case for a foreign language dictionary to use the surface forms rather than the underlying forms. In the case of this prefix, the RID has decided that the underlying form has a long vowel.