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Learning the consonants.

Vowel & consonant graphemes (letters), syllables, and orthography

Moderator: acloudmovingby

Learning the consonants.

Postby Helmut » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:55 am

Dear all,

I started to decipher each consonant, but I am taking strain due to the lack of knowledge.
here are a few which I cannot get right.
มณโฑ tho montho th/t [tʰ/t̚] low

= m mo ma m/m [m/m] low
= n no nen n/n [n/n] low
= th
= o
thus I am getting m?n tho, where is the o from m?n
Helmut
 
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Re: Learning the consonants.

Postby David and Bui » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:06 am

Helmut,

It is always difficult to determine where to start one's learning process. However, in the case of Thai, I think learning each and every consonant and vowel in the Thai alphabet is not a good place to start.

As part of your learning process, however, I would suggest the following articles on this site:

http://www.thai-language.com/id/830221
http://www.thai-language.com/id/830222

You will also see a discussion of unwritten or implied Thai vowels. The first syllable of the Thai word "มณโฑ" has an implied "-oh" between the two consonants.
David in Houston
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Re: Learning the consonants.

Postby Thomas » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:22 pm

Hi Helmut,

to learn, as the first step, all 44 consonants, may be a good idea because it has pragmatic relevance. Once you know them (plus the sara and the tone marks) you can spell (loudly) Thai terms (ger.; [vor-] buchstabieren).

As David pointed out Thai has, among other implied vowels, also an implied short open o (other implied vowels comprise long closed o and short a) I would like to advice you primarily NOT trying to pronounce the written Thai terms but the Thai phonetic entry of a dictionary.

MY first tone rule, btw, is: Apply tone rules only on sattha akson (=Thai phonetic alphabet)!!!

For มณโฑ it is as follows:

Phonemic Thai/sattha akson: มน-โท, which is in RTGS mon-tho. Phonemic Thai has only 1 implied vowel (the o in-between the initial [consonant or consonant cluster] and the final consonant - if there is no vowel at all) and is therefore unambigious as to pronounciation.

I could find more or less convincing arguments to pronounce Thai term มณโฑ as

1. mna-tho (unlikely for the initial unlikely if not impossible consonant cluster)
2. ma-na-tho (likely)
3. mon-tho (true)

Not convinced? ;)

How to pronounce Thai term แหน?

I've no clue, because there are a least two different Thai terms with entirely different pronunciation - and recall MY FIRST tone rule:

http://www.thai-language.com/id/147968

แหน ๑ /แหนฺ/ = HAEN
[กริยา] หวง.
[กริยา] ล้อม, รักษา, เฝ้า, ระวัง เช่น เฝ้าแหน.
แหน ๒ /แหนฺ/
[นาม] (การใช้: ถิ่น-อีสาน) ชื่อไม้ต้นหลายชนิดในสกุล Terminalia วงศ์ Combretaceae เช่น แหนนา (T. glaucifolia Craib).
แหน ๓ /แหฺน/ = NAE
[นาม] ชื่อไม้น้ำหลายชนิดในวงศ์ Lemnaceae ใบกลมเล็กๆ ลอยอยู่ตามน้ำนิ่งๆ เช่น แหนเล็ก (Lemna minor Linn., L.perpusilla Torr.) แหนใหญ่ [Spirodela oligorrhiza (Kurz) Hegelm. และ S.polyrrhiza (Linn.) Schleid.].

The difference is the place of the dot (called phinthu/พินทุ) in the Thai phonetic entry/sattha akson phonetic guide.

Thai is so easy to understand :D :D :roll:
There are three kinds of people: Those who can count and those who cannot.
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Re: Learning the consonants.

Postby Richard Wordingham » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:29 pm

Thomas wrote:For มณโฑ it is as follows:

Phonemic Thai/sattha akson: มน-โท, which is in RTGS mon-tho. Phonemic Thai has only 1 implied vowel (the o in-between the initial [consonant or consonant cluster] and the final consonant - if there is no vowel at all) and is therefore unambigious as to pronounciation.

I could find more or less convincing arguments to pronounce Thai term มณโฑ as

1. mna-tho (unlikely for the initial unlikely if not impossible consonant cluster)
2. ma-na-tho (likely)
3. mon-tho (true)

Not convinced? ;)

No. 3 is backed up by the spelling. No nen () is usually due to assimilation to a preceding ro ruea () or so ruesi () or an immediately following Indic retroflex consonant. In this case, the only option is the tho montho (), so that gives us /-n tho/. That leads to option 3.
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Re: Learning the consonants.

Postby Thomas » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:37 am

Richard Wordingham wrote:
Thomas wrote:For มณโฑ it is as follows:

Phonemic Thai/sattha akson: มน-โท, which is in RTGS mon-tho. ...
3. mon-tho (true)

Not convinced? ;)

No. 3 is backed up by the spelling. ... That leads to option 3.


Agreed/hen duai/Danke, sehe ich auch so/Ok!

No. 3 is backed up by spelling (just by sattha akson - as mentioned).

I - always - highly appreciated your (Richard's) comments.

Eventually mines are too long?
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