ศาลาชุมนุม

[starscream]

for its's not fair i would normally say ไม่ยุติธรรม but then i came across อยุติธรรม meaning not fair on here. which one would be normally used more??

[Toffeeman]

This is how I have used these words.

If it is a fairly trivial matter and you would say 'not fair' in English, bit like a child does with their parents, I would say 'ไม่ยุติธรรม' as a stand alone phrase.

If I used 'ไม่ยุติธรรม' in a sentence, eg. สถานการณ์นี้ไม่ยุติธรรม, I would translate it as 'this situation is unjust' Perhaps a bit more seriousness attached to it.

I have seen the word 'อยุติธรรม' in written Thai and taken it to mean the opposite of justice, therefore meaning injustice, but I haven't heard it used much in speech. Maybe it is written Thai and not spoken Thai.

I will add I have done no checking in dictionaries etc before posting this but have just written how I have understood and used the phrases. I would be interested to know if if is accurate or not.

[tod-daniels]

Why not use the word แฟร์ "fair" which Thais I know use routinely in place of the word ยุติธรรม?

ไม่แฟร์ "not fair" or แฟร์มั้ย "is that fair?" are the ones I hear most.

This is the same word they'll use when talking about a "fair" for products, งานแฟร์; mobile phone fair, technology fair, etc.

I actually hear แฟร์ used quite a lot in today's spoken Thai, even by Thais as old as I am (53 ), so it's definitely a "thai-i-fied" word now.

[Toffeeman]

Yes I hear ไม่แฟร์ just as often as I hear ไม่ยุติธรรม.

[Rick Bradford]

I am constantly amazed by the number of English words I hear on Thai TV and even read in the papers.

My suspicion is that many of them enter the language from the วงจร - showbiz circles -- from where they acquire celebrity cachet, and then permeate into society at large. For example, แฮ็ปปี้ is now routinely used by celebrities in (spoken and written) interviews, and not just in the acne mags, but in the mainstream press as well.

[keith]

I am constantly amazed by the number of English words I hear on Thai TV and even read in the papers.

My suspicion is that many of them enter the language from the วงจร - showbiz circles -- from where they acquire celebrity cachet, and then permeate into society at large. For example, แฮ็ปปี้ is now routinely used by celebrities in (spoken and written) interviews, and not just in the acne mags, but in the mainstream press as well.

T'was ever thus. It happens in all languages and always has, in all directions. We can view it either a bastardisation of the language or as a natural process of evolution. English has words such as pyjamas and bungalow which came from the Indian sub-continent. Recently, I was in France and sat in a bar. I looked at the special offers menu and they had not just Happy Hour but also L'afterwork. Sometimes it comes through pop culture, sometimes from folk trying to appear more educated they think it give their speech a certain je ne sais quoi. At times I wonder whether using the English import, say ทีวี, sounds like a foreigner too lazy to use a Thai word or if using the Thai word โทรทัศน์ sounds stilted.

[starscream]

thanks todd tofeeman keith and rick for your help

[tod-daniels]

In regards to "thai-i-fied" English import words which have crept surreptitiously into common usage in both spoken Thai and in the magazines, I was half-heartedly working on a list of 'em, but man there are a TON used nowadays.

Most seem to come from Thai songs using English words, also quite a few have come from the mouths of the ส.ต.ง. (an acronym Andrew Biggs coined) meaning สวยแต่โง่ and used when referring to Thai ดารา's and their marginal grasp of engrish in attempts to sound more อินเตอร์ when interviewed by the Thai press. BTW: อินเตอร์'s another thai-i-fied word for "international" often used with โกอินเตอร์ "go inter" when referring to a Thai breaking into the international marketplace.

One I was exposed to the other day which actually had to be explained to me by the Thai using it (much to their amazement seeing as it was an English word) was the use of the word "in" or "อิน" (+/- spelling ) which is a thai-i-fied way of saying "into" or "engrossed in watching/doing" something at the time. For example; อย่ายุ่งซิ, ชั้นอินละครนี่นะ "Don't bother me, I'm into this soap opera!" (poor example again with suspect structure/spelling) but you get the idea of its usage.

One other one is the word "fever" ฟีเวอร์ which I've heard Thais use when talking about something which is "all the rage", เพลงนี่ มันฟีเวอร์มากๆ "this song is really big now", it's used like อินเทรนด์ "in trend".

Sorry to drag the thread off-topic . Just some observations. . .

[David and Bui]

For listings of new words entering the Thai language and officially recorded by the Royal Institute, see the three volumes of the "Dictionary of New Words" published in pdf format.

http://www.royin.go.th/th/profile/index ... emMenuIDS=

http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileU ... 7_5163.pdf
http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileU ... 3_9431.pdf
http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileU ... 9_8105.pdf

"Thumb through" these volumes and you will see lots of words brought into Thai from English. They are easy to identify because the Royal Institute specifically notes their origin parenthetically in Roman script after the definition.

[tod-daniels]

"David and Bui", THANX for those!!