Tgeezer wrote: Now we are getting to it, adding more words makes it clear if clarity is required, but there are times where clarity is not required.
He ate breakfast then left. เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วไป Couldn't be more clear could it?
-Hmm…it’s more concise but still not clear enough. I mean I agree with you in the sense that if that was in the mind of anyone who’s telling the story of “he.” The teller has three (or maybe more) choices to tell the story:
เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วไปเขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วก็ไปเขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วจึงไปI already talked about a bit different meaning of each one. It’s not about its wordy or howler in these examples. Each one is correct in its context and has its meaning. I’ll explain some of it again below.
Can you dress it up in Thai as we can in English? would you dress it up?
-Agree. Clear and simple should be our goal in any language. Concise sentence is always the best (in the sense of language learning.)
The object surely is to be understood, why not keep it nice and simple? The feelings one gets from the added words ก็ จึง depend on one's level of familiarity with the language used and one can not be sure that the listener receives the same feeling.
Across languages this feeling can be even more obscure.
-Agree. It’s hard even in the case of “not” across language. Still, I’ve just tried to show its possibilities. If not, then our friends here will only know
เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วไป and nothing else. Another example is: I was going to post about “
มั้ย” and “
ไหม” but changed my mind. Like you said, could it make more clear across languages? If you say (in spoken language) “
ไหม” in stead of “
มั้ย” it will sound very funny (for a native Thai’s ears.) You should not say the written words (language)at all. You have to say “
ยังงั้น,
ยั้งงี้ etc.” or your Thai friends would laugh at you. (
ทำไมถึงทำอะไรอย่างนั้น this will sound like you are reading some recitation, not really a normal talking)
For example เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วจึงไป (He had eaten his breakfast before he went off) “กินข้าว” and “ไป” already happened.]
เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วไป Says 'He ate breakfast and left' doesn't it? does จึง add anything?
-
จึง in this context means something like “in order that/so that” As I already said, it’s as if He needed to eat before he went. The focus is on his eating.
It is a conjunction normally so I would assume that the protagonists know some more things about 'him' that he has to go to work for instance. Should we feel that eating breakfast was a condition which needed to be fulfilled before he could go?
-Again, I’ve just tried to point out its variations. Sure, we don’t know what the teller (or the protagonist) had in his mind but the word he used makes it different. We have only that and have to “stick” to that word without skipping it. Concise is good but it doesn’t mean we should skip some variable meaning.
How is ไป past tense?
Isn't it simply a statement?
-I've lost here. What I meant is when the teller tells this story (about He who eats his breakfast and goes) the protagonist already finish his eating and going, right? If he at least not finished his eating, how could the teller tells that he goes?
Could กำลัง be added to the second sentence? เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วกำลังไปทำงาน
-Yes. This is the answer of what I’ve just asked. This means the protagonist only finished his eating but yet to go to work.
If I said เขาได้กินข้าวเช้าแล้วกำลังไปทำงาน would that be English syntax?
-The better version is “
เขากินข้าวเช้าแล้วและกำลังไปทำงาน” (He ate his breakfast and is on his way to work.) As for Thai, there’s no need to add “
ได้” there. As for English syntax, you have to tell me.
เขากินข้าวเช้าเสร็จแล้วก็ไปทำงาน
Which of these is wrong? Not Thai
-Hmm…even “
เสร็จ” might come from English word “finished” but it seems to be Thai word already. This sentence is a neat (beautiful) written language even “
เสร็จ” seems to be no need there. But beautiful language is still beautiful even it may lack of its conciseness.
So; 'climbed' means 'went climbing'. Then we come to; 'on a sheer whim'; one meaning of 'sheer' as an adjective applied to an ascent, 'perpendicular'. Since the verb is 'climb' more thought is needed; one might think that 'whim' is a geographical feature. We climbed 800 miles away on a sheer