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Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Complete sentences, phrases, and figurative speech

Moderator: daฟาน

Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 21, 2012 3:16 am

"นอกเหนือจากทัศนคติที่ไม่ตรงกันแล้ว อีกประเด็นหนึ่งที่คนไม่พอใจเขา เพราะเป็นการกระหน่ำซ้ำเติมใส่คนตาย"
"In addition to his differing opinions, another reason that people are dissatisfied with him is his continual criticism of those who have already passed away."

"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
"The final round of negotiations have reached a critical stage; there are still many conflicts and disagreements."
David in Phuket
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby Alan » Mon May 21, 2012 4:24 am

how about...
การกระหน่ำซ้ำเติม "piling on" or "rubbing the salt in the wound" "hitting a man when he's down"

คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม "right at the moment of truth" I've seen this referred to in a situation where a guy was just about to have his way (engage in sexual relations) with a woman and his friend decided drop by. He was a bit miffed with his friend and said "Hey I was just about to 'get some'". I forgot exactly how he put it but he chided his friend -- something like "นี่! มึงรู้มั้ย! กูกำลังจะเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็มนะโว่ย จะแวะมาทำไมล่ะ"
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby Tgeezer » Mon May 21, 2012 5:19 am

David and Bui wrote:
"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
"The final round of negotiations have reached a critical stage; there are still many conflicts and disagreements."

Whatever those expressions mean, and I take your word for them, doesn't เกิด give the feeling that something was 'created' rather than 'still existing'?
Tgeezer
 
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 21, 2012 5:27 am

Tgeezer wrote:
David and Bui wrote:
"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
"The final round of negotiations have reached a critical stage; there are still many conflicts and disagreements."

Whatever those expressions mean, and I take your word for them, doesn't เกิด give the feeling that something was 'created' rather than 'still existing'?

Good point. How about:

"The final round of negotiations have reached a critical stage; many conflicts and disagreements have come up."
David in Phuket
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby Pirin » Mon May 21, 2012 5:29 am

David and Bui wrote:"นอกเหนือจากทัศนคติที่ไม่ตรงกันแล้ว อีกประเด็นหนึ่งที่คนไม่พอใจเขา เพราะเป็นการกระหน่ำซ้ำเติมใส่คนตาย"
"In addition to his differing opinions, another reason that people are dissatisfied with him is his continual criticism of those who have already passed away."

"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
"The final round of negotiations have reached a critical stage; there are still many conflicts and disagreements."


"นอกเหนือจากทัศนคติที่ไม่ตรงกันแล้ว อีกประเด็นหนึ่งที่คนไม่พอใจเขา เพราะ(สิ่งที่เขาทำ)เป็นการกระหน่ำซ้ำเติมใส่คนตาย"
=>
"In addition to his differing opinions, another reason that dissatisfies people is that he digs some dirt upon the one who has already passed away."

"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
“In the final round of negotiations, when they almost reached an agreement, many conflicts and disagreements suddenly (or unexpectedly) arised.”

"เกิด" roughly means unexpectedly.
(PS: I เกิด sumitted this posting at the same time with khun David พอดี.)
เสนาะโสตเสียงสุนทรีย์มีสรรค์สร้าง ลิขิตทางวางบรรจบสบสองเรา
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 21, 2012 5:48 am

Thank you, Khun Pirin.
David in Phuket
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 21, 2012 6:05 am

Pirin wrote:"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
“In the final round of negotiations, when they almost reached an agreement, many conflicts and disagreements suddenly (or unexpectedly) arose.”


I recently heard the phrase ปีนเกลียว used metaphorically in a similar context to the above sentence, but with a "twist".

The literal meaning of "ปีนเกลียว" is "to strip the thread of a screw, nut, or bolt". It is used in a metaphorical sense to mean "to have a disagreement, clash, not get along together." The context in which I heard the phrase, and had it explained to me, was two women working out the age/gender prefix code which they would use with each other in future conversations. The older one expected the younger one to call her พี่, which the younger one did for a while. Then, the younger of the two began calling the older by her name, without the prefix. The older then asked the younger, "จะปีนเกลียวหรือ", or something to that effect.

Perhaps this is roughly equivalent to the English, "to get crosswise with someone". What do you think?
David in Phuket
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby Pirin » Mon May 21, 2012 6:48 am

บังเอิญยังไม่ค่อยมั่นใจว่า “to get crosswise with someone” สื่อความว่าอะไรกันแน่

ก็เลยขอให้คุณตัดสินใจเอาเองว่า “to get crosswise with someone” ในภาษาอังกฤษสื่อความใกล้เคียงกับคำว่าปีนเกลียวในภาษาไทยหรือไม่ เพียงใด

พจนานุกรมฉบับราชบัณฑิตยสถาน พ.. ๒๕๔๒ ระบุว่า
คำว่าปีนเกลียวเป็นคำวิเศษณ์
แปลว่า
มีความเห็นไม่ลงรอยกัน, ขัดแย้งกัน, แตกพวกหรือไม่ถูกกันค่ะ
เสนาะโสตเสียงสุนทรีย์มีสรรค์สร้าง ลิขิตทางวางบรรจบสบสองเรา
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby Tgeezer » Mon May 21, 2012 7:07 am

David and Bui wrote:
Pirin wrote:"การเจรจากันในช่วงโค้งสุดท้าย คืนเข้าด้ายเข้าเข็ม เกิดปีนเกลียวกันขึ้นหลายประเด็น"
“In the final round of negotiations, when they almost reached an agreement, many conflicts and disagreements suddenly (or unexpectedly) arose.”


I recently heard the phrase ปีนเกลียว used metaphorically in a similar context to the above sentence, but with a "twist".

The literal meaning of "ปีนเกลียว" is "to strip the thread of a screw, nut, or bolt". It is used in a metaphorical sense to mean "to have a disagreement, clash, not get along together." The context in which I heard the phrase, and had it explained to me, was two women working out the age/gender prefix code which they would use with each other in future conversations. The older one expected the younger one to call her พี่, which the younger one did for a while. Then, the younger of the two began calling the older by her name, without the prefix. The older then asked the younger, "จะปีนเกลียวหรือ", or something to that effect.

Perhaps this is roughly equivalent to the English, "to get crosswise with someone". What do you think?

The problem with translation is that the basic words sound to simple. Like 'walk on' or 'live on' for 'continuing' .
This word is to twist together, make two or more into one rope etc. with a nut and bolt they become one together, twisting went on to create the union, when they don't fit together because the thread is crossed they are ปีนเกลียว when two or more people are no longer as one in action thought etc. they are ปีนเกลียว . What would be really nice is to find simple English words for เกลียว and ปีน. I think of เกลียว as 'made into one' and 'climb' as doing something with difficulty so ปินเกลียว becomes 'making getting on together difficult'. It is a วิเศษณ์ actually, so เกิดปีนเกลียว can't mean born in that way so I must think of ปีนเกลียว as ความปีนเกลียว . I think that the important feature is that something is actively done.

I am happy with this at the moment but with more examples may have to change the simple English until finally I understand it. As the Thai becomes more idiomatic I think the simple English becomes more applicable.
It would be interesting to here other people's methods.
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Re: Do I understand these Thai sentences correctly?

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 21, 2012 7:13 am

A quote from Friedrich Nietzsche:

"What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do and crosswise to our purposes? For love to bridge these opposites through joy it must not eliminate or deny them.—Even self-love presupposes an irreconcilable duality (or multiplicity) in a single person."
David in Phuket
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