ศาลาชุมนุม

[David and Bui]

Friends,

Please help me understand this sentence:

". . . เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด"

My inclination is to say that this means,

". . . except that the exact date and time when this will occur has not yet been determined." or, more simply:
". . . the precise time when this will occur has not yet been set."

What do you think? Thanks.

[claude06thailand]

I think both translation are fine, and I prefer the second one, maybe with "except that" or "just that" before...

[Nan]

". . . เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด"

". . . except that the exact date and time when this will occur has not yet been determined."

Khun David kha,

I don't see why "when this will occur" needed in this translation. Is it possible to cut this part off and still make sense in English?

[Tgeezer]

". . . เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด"

". . . except that the exact date and time when this will occur has not yet been determined."

Khun David kha,

I don't see why "when this will occur" needed in this translation. Is it possible to cut this part off and still make sense in English?

Would it be correct to say that it doesn't say that anything is occurring, it only talks about time.

[David and Bui]

". . . เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด"

". . . except that the exact date and time when this will occur has not yet been determined."

Khun David kha,

I don't see why "when this will occur" needed in this translation. Is it possible to cut this part off and still make sense in English?

Thank you, Khun Nan. Standing by itself, I believe you are correct. However, the preceding paragraph is,

"ความจริง ภายในพรรคเพื่อไทยและพรรคร่วมรัฐบาลก็มีความต้องการร่วมดำรงอยู่ คือความต้องการในการเสนอญัตติขอแก้ไขเพิ่มเติมรัฐธรรมนูญโดยเริ่มจากมาตรา 291 เพื่อเป็นช่องทางไปสู่การจัดตั้งสภาร่างรัฐธรรมนูญ"

It seemed to me that "การเสนอญัตติขอแก้ไขเพิ่มเติมรัฐธรรมนูญ" is the referent to which "จะเป็นเมื่อใด" (this will occur), that is, "it has not yet been determined when 'recommending a constitutional amendment' will occur'".

Furthermore, in the article these two sentences are preceded by a parallel set of sentences:

"สภาพการณ์ทางการเมืองในปัจจุบันจึงสุกงอมเป็นอย่างสูงสำหรับแนวทางแก้ไขและบริหารจัดการเพื่อนำไปสู่รัฐธรรมนูญใหม่ของรัฐบาล น.ส.ยิ่งลักษณ์ ชินวัตร

เพียงแต่ว่าจะขับเคลื่อนเมื่อใดเท่านั้นเอง"
(. . . except that we still don't know when the government will move forward on pushing for the new constitution.)

What do you think? Thanks.

[Nan]

Khun David kha,

I agree with your translation. I think it would sound better in English if we add "when this will occur" in this case.

In Thai, we don't need to add it because it's clear by context what we are talking about.

For example:

สุดากับผมตกลงที่จะแต่งงานกันแน่นอนแล้ว เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด

If it's in this case, I think it would sound a little bit strange to add "when this will occur" in it. This was I had in mind when I replied my previous post. Or, should I add "when this will occur" in this translation too?

[David and Bui]

Great! Thanks, Khun Nan.

[Tgeezer]

". . . เพียงแต่ยังไม่ได้กำหนดวันเวลาที่แน่ชัดว่าจะเป็นเมื่อใด"

". . . except that the exact date and time when this will occur has not yet been determined."

Khun David kha,

I don't see why "when this will occur" needed in this translation. Is it possible to cut this part off and still make sense in English?

Thank you, Khun Nan. Standing by itself, I believe you are correct.

The thing was standing by itself when you presented it, David!
Nan simply asked if it was possible in translation to preserve the meaning of what you presented.
I chipped in because I think it can be done.
Why can't you say 'except for the fact that the exact date has yet to be fixed?

[Tgeezer]

I took so long to post that Nan posted. I don't agree that it needs anymore amplification than the Thai needs, why should it?

[montyb]

Hi David,
What I had in mind was something like “it’s just that (like Claude pointed out above) we (or persons who will determine) haven’t determined it when.” Or “…but we haven’t determine/set the date yet.”
This is because “except” seems to “prevent from being included, considered or accepted” but this phrase seemed/tend to being considered/accepted (though with the political tongue)
As for “วันเวลาที่แน่ชัด” I believe it means only “when/date.” Not about the exact time. But when it’s set about an official date like this, it’s usually set the (exact) time too.
Just my two cents.