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"ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Complete sentences, phrases, and figurative speech

Moderator: daฟาน

Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby DonSena » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:08 pm

สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ ก็พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่

The prepositional phrase สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ , minus the preposition สำหรับ , becomes the topical heading of the sentence. If สำหรับ had been omitted, the sentence would very likely still be legitimate. It would simply be
มหาอำนาจต่างๆ (ก็)พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่
where มหาอำนาจต่างๆ is the topic,
the subject is an implied pronoun (เขา พวกเขา ฯลฯ)
and the verb phrase is พอมองออก (with มอง the main verb).
Possibly, the conjunction ก็ could be omitted if we also omit the preposition สำหรับ .

The arrangement of topic - subject – verb is frequent in Thai,
in which the topic is either the goal or the general context of the sentence,
the subject the agent (or “actor”)
and the verb phrase the action itself.

In ประตูเขาปิดหมด He/they shut all the doors,
ประตู is the topic, the goal of the ‘shutting,” or the context in which the shutting takes place.

It probably would not be wrong to make the topic into a prepositional phrase,
using, say, ส่วน for the preposition:

ส่วนประตู เขาก็ปิดหมด making use of conjunction ก็ appropriate.

The same could probably be done with a sentence like
โลกนี้ภูมิอากาศกำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ Worldwide, the climate is steadily cooling (with โลกนี้ as topic).
ส่วน (สำหรับ)โลกนี้ ภูมิอากาศก็กำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ

(Native speakers could help me improve this last sentence which I made up, I'm sure.)
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Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby David and Bui » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:17 pm

Don,

Eliminating "สำหรับ" does it for me. I, also, would like a native Thai opinion.

Thanks for your expansive thoughts.
David in Phuket
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Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby Tgeezer » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:27 pm

David and Bui wrote:Tgeezer,

How about,

หลายประเทศสงวนแหล่งพลังงานภายในประเทศของตนไว้แต่ออกล่าหาแหล่งอื่น แม้จะอยู่ไกลสุดหล้าฟ้าเขียว
Many countries [not only] seek to conserve their domestic power-producing natural resources but also seek [these resources] everywhere, even to the far corners of the earth.

(taking into account Pirin's recommendation, "not only ... but also".

I was interested to see if สุดหล้าฟ้าเขียว still conveyed its original meaning in spite of apparently being compromised by having ไกล slipped in there, maybe that is where 'not only but also' comes from. :lol:
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Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby Tgeezer » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:38 pm

DonSena wrote:สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ ก็พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่

The prepositional phrase สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ , minus the preposition สำหรับ , becomes the topical heading of the sentence. If สำหรับ had been omitted, the sentence would very likely still be legitimate. It would simply be
มหาอำนาจต่างๆ (ก็)พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่
where มหาอำนาจต่างๆ is the topic,
the subject is an implied pronoun (เขา พวกเขา ฯลฯ)
and the verb phrase is พอมองออก (with มอง the main verb).
Possibly, the conjunction ก็ could be omitted if we also omit the preposition สำหรับ .

The arrangement of topic - subject – verb is frequent in Thai,
in which the topic is either the goal or the general context of the sentence,
the subject the agent (or “actor”)
and the verb phrase the action itself.

In ประตูเขาปิดหมด He/they shut all the doors,
ประตู is the topic, the goal of the ‘shutting,” or the context in which the shutting takes place.

It probably would not be wrong to make the topic into a prepositional phrase,
using, say, ส่วน for the preposition:

ส่วนประตู เขาก็ปิดหมด making use of conjunction ก็ appropriate.

The same could probably be done with a sentence like
โลกนี้ภูมิอากาศกำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ Worldwide, the climate is steadily cooling (with โลกนี้ as topic).
ส่วน (สำหรับ)โลกนี้ ภูมิอากาศก็กำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ

(Native speakers could help me improve this last sentence which I made up, I'm sure.)

If we are to consider สำหรับ a preposition why not put the English like this.
The major users of energy realize that within the coming three to five years the provision of energy is going to be a very big problem for them.
Tgeezer
 
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Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby DonSena » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:16 pm

Tgeezer wrote:
DonSena wrote:สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ ก็พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่

The prepositional phrase สำหรับมหาอำนาจต่างๆ , minus the preposition สำหรับ , becomes the topical heading of the sentence. If สำหรับ had been omitted, the sentence would very likely still be legitimate. It would simply be
มหาอำนาจต่างๆ (ก็)พอมองออกแล้วว่า ในระยะสามถึงห้าปีข้างหน้า ปัญหาพลังงานจะเป็นปัญหาใหญ่
where มหาอำนาจต่างๆ is the topic,
the subject is an implied pronoun (เขา พวกเขา ฯลฯ)
and the verb phrase is พอมองออก (with มอง the main verb).
Possibly, the conjunction ก็ could be omitted if we also omit the preposition สำหรับ .

The arrangement of topic - subject – verb is frequent in Thai,
in which the topic is either the goal or the general context of the sentence,
the subject the agent (or “actor”)
and the verb phrase the action itself.

In ประตูเขาปิดหมด He/they shut all the doors,
ประตู is the topic, the goal of the ‘shutting,” or the context in which the shutting takes place.

It probably would not be wrong to make the topic into a prepositional phrase,
using, say, ส่วน for the preposition:

ส่วนประตู เขาก็ปิดหมด making use of conjunction ก็ appropriate.

The same could probably be done with a sentence like
โลกนี้ภูมิอากาศกำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ Worldwide, the climate is steadily cooling (with โลกนี้ as topic).
ส่วน (สำหรับ)โลกนี้ ภูมิอากาศก็กำลังเย็นลงอยู่เรื่อยๆ

(Native speakers could help me improve this last sentence which I made up, I'm sure.)

If we are to consider สำหรับ a preposition why not put the English like this.
The major users of energy realize that within the coming three to five years the provision of energy is going to be a very big problem for them.


The sentence doesn't speak of the major users, but of superpowers and a major problem of energy (production) for those powers.
To translate literally (bot not idiomatically),
[For the superpowers] [it suffices to observe] [that in three-to-five years, problems of energy will be great problems]
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Re: "ปัญหาพลังงาน"

Postby Tgeezer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:52 am

DonSena wrote:The sentence doesn't speak of the major users, but of superpowers and a major problem of energy (production) for those powers.
To translate literally (bot not idiomatically),
[For the superpowers] [it suffices to observe] [that in three-to-five years, problems of energy will be great problems]


The RID มหาอำนาจ ว. เรียกประเทศที่มีพลังทางด้านเศรษฐกิจหรือทางทหารสูงว่า ประเทศมหาอำนาจ. If this word was coined to cover an English expression I would expect the dictionary to show it; (. superpower)

I see this as a matter of supply rather than production.
What I like is that not everyone sees the written word as meaning the same thing, unless one uses other people's ideas (T/E dict.) one is able to translate freely. Seeing only snippets like this it is impossible to know what the writer intends to convey. So what I am suggesting is only the way I see things.
I think that yours is the first to disqualify my interpretation but I would appreciate more explanation.
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