ศาลาชุมนุม

[starscream]

thanks nan for the very good examples interesting about if they ask what you are doing you can use อยู่ and if they ask where are you now it's better to use กำลัง

when thai people speak casually to their friends it feels to me they make it as short as possible

e.g they rarely use the first person pronouns
i never hear กำลัง if i do its normally pronounced กะลัง
never hear the polite particles ครับ ค่ะ

เพรุ่งนี้คุณจะไปเรียนไม่ครับ

would be shortened to เพรุ่งนี้มีเรียนมั้ย

could it be shortened to even เพรุ่งนี้เรียนไหม??

thanks todd i normally say งง or งงเต็ก
also another thing it feels weird when i use คุณ and ผม when talking with my wife i normally use เธอ ที่รัก ตัวเอง in reference to her but for me I'm still stuck with ผม
would it be better to use เค้า or พี่ in reference to myself

[Nan]

when thai people speak casually to their friends it feels to me they make it as short as possible

จริง

e.g they rarely use the first person pronouns
i never hear กำลัง if i do its normally pronounced กะลัง
never hear the polite particles ครับ ค่ะ

It depends on who they are talking with. If it's among friends, it's true.

เพรุ่งนี้คุณจะไปเรียนไม่ครับ

would be shortened to เพรุ่งนี้มีเรียนมั้ย

could it be shortened to even เพรุ่งนี้เรียนไหม??

พรุ่งนี้มีเรียนมั้ย and พรุ่งนี้เรียนมั้ย are not quite the same. The meaning of the latter depends on context, but the first one you don't know if the one you ask have a class or not.

thanks todd i normally say งง or งงเต็ก

งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก is the original idiom

งงเต็ก and งงแดก are slangs and also the shorten form of งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก

[Nan]

It is no great wonder that people don't specify time in conversations in English why should it be so in Thai?

Is that true? Hmmm. I have no idea.

[Toffeeman]

งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก is the original idiom

งงเต็ก and งงแดก are slangs and also the shorten form of งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก

Can I just confirm the ด & ต in these 2 words.
งงเต็ก couldnt find the word เต็ก even in the RID. Should it be เด็ก?
งงแดก Is this a ด or is the same word as the last word of the long version แตก?

[Nan]

Can I just confirm the ด & ต in these 2 words.
งงเต็ก couldnt find the word เต็ก even in the RID. Should it be เด็ก?
งงแดก Is this a ด or is the same word as the last word of the long version แตก?

Both are slangs, that's why you couldn't fine the meaning of เต็ก in anywhere.

งงแดก has the same meaning as งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก but shorter and slangy.

แดก is a vulgar word for eat, drink, eat ravenously.

You probably see this word compounded with another word which often used in sarcastic meaning.

Ex.

ใบ้แดก - ทำเป็นปากเก่ง พอโดนเค้าด่าจริง ๆ ใบ้แดก ไม่กล้าพูดมากอีก
เซ่อแดก - เฮ้ย จู่ ๆ ก็มีผู้หญิงมาบอกรัก เล่นเอากูเซ่อแดกเลยวะ (sorry for using vulgar words. )
โง่แดก - อะไรวะ นึกว่าจะเจ๋ง พอลองให้ทำจริง ๆ โง่แดกเลยมึง (sorry for using vulgar words again. )

[Tgeezer]

It is no great wonder that people don't specify time in conversations in English why should it be so in Thai?

Is that true? Hmmm. I have no idea.

Sorry, I mean that it is no great wonder to me, I can only speak for English, we add tense without realizing it.

If I ask อยู่ทีไหน and the reply is เดินไปกรีนภาร์ก I hear "Walking to Green Park", I don't feel the lack of a tense in the same way that a native speaker does.

[tod-daniels]

I think a lot of it hasta do with the penchant in casually spoken Thai to leave out anything which is understood in context by the people conversing.

อยู่ไหนเนี่ย - เดินไปกรีนภาร์ก (it's understood the person IS on the way there so the อยู่ can be left out of the answer)

ทำไรอยู่ - เดินกินลม (idiomatic for "out for a breath of fresh air". This can also be used when you don't wanna be rude and tell someone it's none of their business what you're doing. Again the continuous tense marker(s) can be left off with no loss in comprehension by the listener) .

The difference between casually spoken Thai and grammatically correct written Thai is indeed staggering. In books Thais กำลัง Thais อยู่ and they even กำลังอยู่ too! Plus there are a lot more what I call “time markers” in written Thai. Seeing as Thai verbs don’t conjugate “time markers” are used to denote tense. In “live conversations”; because so much is understood in context between the speakers often times there aren’t ANY “time markers” yet each person knows exactly the sequence of events.

It's my experience very few, if any Thais I've eavesdropped on EVER speak grammatically correct Thai; even if their social register varies based on who they're talkin' to.

Interesting Topic though. ..

“starscream” I hafta say your usage of Thai and the difficulty of the questions you ask has gone up measurably. Kudos to you for that!

[David and Bui]

Tod,

Please help me understand. When you say "grammatically correct Thai" to what standard are you referring?

Seems to me that Ajarn Nawawan is a standard setter:

ประโยคที่แสดงเนื้อความอย่างเดียวกันอาจยาวหรือสั้นต่างกันไปได้ แล้วแต่ว่าผู้พูดหรือผู้เขียนจะใช้คำมากน้อบเพียงใดในประโยคน้ันๆ คำบางคำในประโยคอาจจะละไปได้โดยผู้ฟังหรือผู้อ่านจะรู้ความหมายได้จากบริบท คำที่ละไปอาจเป็นคำใจปน่วยนามหรือหน่วยกริยาก็ได้

(“ไวยกรณ์ไทย” นววรรณ พันธุเมธา, ๒๕๕๑)

"Sentences which express the same idea can be either long or short, depending on the number of words the speaker or writer wishes to use in that particular sentence. Words may be omitted from a sentence if the parties to the conversation already know the meaning of the omitted words based on the context. Omitted words may be elements of the subject or of the predicate."

[Tgeezer]

I think a lot of it hasta do with the penchant in casually spoken Thai to leave out anything which is understood in context by the people conversing.

Thank you Tod; a little longer than my second post but I think that the penny has dropped now.