ศาลาชุมนุม

[insayt]

Hi everybody!

Have a few lines here which I cannot put into a proper English even though I roughly know what it means! Taken from http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q= ... 3%E0%B8%B2

It's the continuation of previous thread about เรา

First singular pronoun I

เราคิดว่าอาจารย์ไม่น่าจะว่างนะ

Pronoun We

เรายังไม่ทราบแน่ชัดว่าบทเรียนต่างๆ ควรมีลำดับอย่างไร

Second person pronoun You

เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว

Thank's Peter

[David and Bui]

Here is my take:

เราคิดว่าอาจารย์ไม่น่าจะว่างนะ
I suspect that the professor is not available.
I think that the professor is unlikely to be available [to see me].

เรายังไม่ทราบแน่ชัดว่าบทเรียนต่างๆ ควรมีลำดับอย่างไร
We’re still not absolutely certain in what order the various lessons should be [(presented) or(studied)].

เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว
What grade are you in?

[claude06thailand]

First singular pronoun I

เราคิดว่าอาจารย์ไม่น่าจะว่างนะ > I think that the teacher is probably not free (now)
น่าจะ > probably =/= ไม่น่าจะ > probably not
นะ > idiomatic

Pronoun We
เรายังไม่ทราบแน่ชัดว่าบทเรียนต่างๆ ควรมีลำดับอย่างไร > we stiil don't know exactly in which order these lessons should be classified
เรายังไม่ทราบแน่ชัดว่า > we still do not know clearly
บทเรียนต่างๆ > these few lessons
ควรมีลำดับอย่างไร > should be organized in which order

Second person pronoun You

เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว > My boy, which grade are you learning now ?
This seems to be from an older people speaking to a young child

เราน่ะ > My boy (or My Girl)
เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว > you are learning which grade (already)

I see that David has been quicker than me and I recommend his version for "proper english", as I am French
... but you may find something in my version too.

[David and Bui]

Claude,

I like your translations very much. My impression is that the differences between our renderings reflect the lack of specificity in the original Thai sentences.

[Pirin]

In "เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว", both "เรา" and "น่ะ" show that ผู้ใหญ่(ที่พูดกับเด็ก)เอ็นดูเด็กค่ะ

"เอ็นดู" is also a verb (RID: เอ็นดู ก. มีใจรักใคร่, ปรานี.)

คุณ Claude's selection of "my boy (or girl)" for "เรา" is a good one for this context.

[Tgeezer]

In "เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว", both "เรา" and "น่ะ" show that ผู้ใหญ่(ที่พูดกับเด็ก)เอ็นดูเด็กค่ะ

"เอ็นดู" is also a verb (RID: เอ็นดู ก. มีใจรักใคร่, ปรานี.)

คุณ Claude's selection of "my boy (or girl)" for "เรา" is a good one for this context.

I don't know the English equivalents but in my part of the woods its like this.
We have the pronoun One which could be the first เรา. But does it apply?
The second inclusive we เรา.
And the last one showing affection.

One imagines that the prof. is unlikely to be free. ( เรา meaning that all of us are capable of coming to this conclusion.)
We still don't know in what order the various lessons will be. (Could include the 2nd person. )
Which class are we in? (What stops this from becoming the 1pp- plural? นะ ? )

เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู

It seems to be a hair splitting exercise actually, it can be refined as much as we like but in the end it is only conversation. Except in the last case where you wouldn't want to call a kid คุณ. เรา in the 1st p because ผม seems formal and boring. เรา in the 1st pp because it is .
To me the examples don't convey anything except for the last one.
I guess this belongs in the file a forget basket.

[Pirin]

(1) One imagines that the prof. is unlikely to be free. ( เรา meaning that all of us are capable of coming to this conclusion.)
(2) We still don't know in what order the various lessons will be. (Could include the listener, but is the speaker plus others.
(3) Which class are we in? (There must be no possibility that the speaker could be grouped with the listener, else it just becomes the inclusive we.)

They seem to match; the site implies that a different construction is required, is that necessarily the case?
(4) เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู

(1) เห็นด้วยบ้างค่ะ, but "เรา" is rather equivalent to "to me".
(2) เห็นด้วยค่ะ
(3) "Which class are we in?" is rather equivalent to, "พวกเรา(น่ะ)เรียนอยู่ห้อง / ชั้น / ชั้นปี ไหน"
(4) "เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู"?
Because, by addressing the child as "หนู", this speaker is sweeter to the listener than the one who says, "เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว", the word "เรา" is not needed.
A possible edited piece of "เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู" is "หนูเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนจ๊ะ".

[Tgeezer]

(1) One imagines that the prof. is unlikely to be free. ( เรา meaning that all of us are capable of coming to this conclusion.)
(2) We still don't know in what order the various lessons will be. (Could include the listener, but is the speaker plus others.
(3) Which class are we in? (There must be no possibility that the speaker could be grouped with the listener, else it just becomes the inclusive we.)

They seem to match; the site implies that a different construction is required, is that necessarily the case?
(4) เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู

(1) เห็นด้วยบ้างค่ะ, but "เรา" is rather equivalent to "to me".
(2) เห็นด้วยค่ะ
(3) "Which class are we in?" is rather equivalent to, "พวกเรา(น่ะ)เรียนอยู่ห้อง / ชั้น / ชั้นปี ไหน"
(4) "เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู"?
Because, by addressing the child as "หนู", this speaker is sweeter to the listener than the one who says, "เราน่ะ เรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนแล้ว", the word "เรา" is not needed.
A possible edited piece of "เราเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนนะหนู" is "หนูเรียนอยู่ชั้นไหนจ๊ะ".

Is there a Thai way of saying 'one' speaking for people in general?
One knows that one can never win in these cases.
I agree with you on the third, the English requires accent, also requires context.

Does Thai use เรา in an ironic or condescending way?
By condescending I mean placing yourself at the level of an inferior while still maintaining an attitude of superiority, the choice of 'we' is supposed to show this in words but it needs context to show what Claude has had to include; 'my boy' .

Could you say แล้วเราหล่ะ สบายไหม Com'fortable are WE. The context is; a recruit in the spartan accommodation the military provides, putting his feet on the bed with his shoes on. In English the condescension is shown with 'we' but context excludes the possibility of 'we' being the case.
I doubt that this; แล้วเราหล่ะ สบายไหม would work.
Edit:
"this speaker is sweeter to the listener " I missed the ไม้เอก เราน่ะ more authority, needing less context.

[insayt]

Hi everybody!

I must say that you guys in this forum are absolutely great. Thanks’ to all of you. This Rao have become an obsession to me, I can't let it go, but now maybe I can rest for awhile.

I will read this through and learn alot from it!

The interesting connection here to Rao is as you probably know that Rao is a chinese loanword into Thai.
Rao 饒 is a Chinese surname which literally means "abundant", "plentiful", "to spare", or "to forgive".

These meanings above imply that there is more then (One in a sense) and therefore Rao has been taken into the Thai language…just a reflection.

Peter


Thank’s again Peter

[Pirin]

Is there a Thai way of saying 'one' speaking for people in general?

เป็นคำถามที่ดีมากค่ะ
You might have read this conversation:
http://www.thai-language.com/forums/t/t ... nced/t7054.

In “การที่เรารักใครซักคน ถ้าคนนั้นบอกเราว่า...เหนื่อยก็พัก แปลว่า เค้าไม่คิดจะทำให้เราหายเหนื่อย หรือเปลี่ยนแปลง แต่...เขาคิดว่าเราควร จบที่เค้าและไปเจอคนที่ไม่ทำให้เราเหนื่อย เท่ากับว่า ความรักของเขา คือ...การที่เราต้องทำใจยอมรับ ผลที่ออกมา คือ....อยู่ได้ก็อยู่ ทนได้ก็ทน ทนไม่ไหว.....ก็ไปซะ”, "เรา" can be 'we', 'you' or 'one'. It does depend on context.