The criteria I use in choosing which phrases I want to take for further processing (memorization, further vetting, Google searches, out loud production to create muscle-memory of the term etc etc...) - all so that I can instantly recall and produce the term on demand - this criteria is not just what the term means, but what it does for me and how it makes me look.
This Thai term is simply a diamond (and the discussion/examples produced in the thread, stellar). Why? Because in the "what it does for me" category, this phrase comes up a winner.
First, lets consider the English translations. Once I think I've got the English translation correct (or I should say in this case, the contributors to the thread got it correct), before I concern myself too much with the Thai, I ask myself: In my native language, English, when I say "...then how do you expect....", or "it goes without saying" - what is that phrase doing for me? And then, I try to find out, after crossing the cultural gulf, will the phrase "perform the same?".
นับประสาอะไรกับ and สำมะหาอันใดจะ are brilliant little rhetorical tools. I could see needing to use this pretty often. What a great sassy, edgy, barb - laced with a touch of humor, and dash of sarcasm...When I say these phrases to someone who may be trying to convince me of something or push his agenda on me, saying this phrase stops 'em dead in their tracks. (I would like to add "...you can just forget about" and "...Don't even mention..." and there might be a place for the elusive "much less" and "let alone"): So, what does the phrase "do"?
1. You've communicated a "stance" - a personality element - that "you ain't having none of it!". So, within the meaning of the phrase there's a reflection on your personality, where you're coming from. Is it in the meaning of the phrase itself that you are resolute, that you are not a pushover? I dont think that is in the literal meaning, but the phrase is performing more for you than the meaning itself. Just squaring your jaw, and delivering this phrase with a bit of a holier-than-thou tone alone is often enough to stymie an irritating claimant.
2. Because the phrase is "argumentative" sounding ("It goes without saying..."), and because it is implied that "it's obvious" - okay now watch this or you'll miss it - you have, in a sly and civilized way implied that the very suggestion is absurd, and the the speaker should have known. This is what I call "the language of restraint". Instead of confronting the speaker and saying "You should have known, you fool, what are ya doing!" - you come up looking like the diplomatic one because you've taken the verbal high road. I think that both English and Thai are languages in which there is a lot of "restraint" and to the extent that you can play those cards, YOU come up the winner.
3. This is the trump card: You've actually kind of called the person who suggested (whatever they are advocating) "stupid" without having to get your hands dirty and use an offensive term like "stupid". I mean, if it goes without saying, then why did you say it? Are you vacant or something?
In English, and in Thai, the phrase seems to perform similarly. I consider this a very "high yield" phrase which does a lot of heavy lifting for the speaker over and above simply communicating a question literally "how can you expect..." or "it does in fact go without saying". This is one of those beautifully subtle Thai phrases where you can "Take a jab" (พูดเหน็บแนม), with a certain amount of impunity.
So, in terms of the criteria: What does it do, what does it say about my personality, I'd have to say that this is a fantastic, hi-performance phrase which I will surely integrate into my "tool bag".
This register - being able to politely reject, or put someone in check, pull out a "gotcha" phrase while remaining within the bounds of civilized restraint - is something that seems to be missing from organized textbook curriculum, but I think that students are now demanding to access this type of natural language which native Thai speakers use to "make moves" more and more. I'm looking forward to seeing more posts which drill down to these hi-performing phrases to which there's more than meets the eye.
Not trying to be selfish, but I increasingly ask: What "moves" is this phrase putting on the listener? When a native Thai speaker pulls one of these out, what's the effect? How does it elevate me when I use it? What's the yield? Good stuff, this one. It's sort of a "defensive Thai" which Thai natives couldn't really survive without...Farang learners would do well to be equipped with such tools.
Now I know what you're probably thinking: "Hey, this Alan guy...what a braggart! If he can't even get intermediate Thai down pat, how can you expect him to/it goes without saying that he can't/much less/let alone (ever master) this complex stuff!" Let me try, but please correct my Thai: "ไอ้อลัน...หมอนี่...ขี้โม้หวะ(low tone on the "wa" please)...จะพิชิตภาษาไทยระดับกลางก็ไม่ได้...สำมะหาอะไรจะใช้ภาษาซับซ้อนเป็น!
